“Much like companies that hang their hats on this thing or that thing, we wanted to be explicit so that we were attracting the folks that we wanted to play with and repelling the folks that wouldn’t be a good fit for us.”

This is Taylor Sparks of the Raleigh-Durham MO.com, where we feature small business owners and entrepreneurs to bring you, hints, tips, insights, and perspectives on what it takes to be successful. Joining us today is John Miles, the CEO and Chief of What’s Next at Integritive, a web development and emarketing firm located in Asheville, NC. Integritive  also made the 2011 World Blu’s list of most democratic places to work.  John, Thank you for taking the time to speak with MO.com.

MO:
I read that this is your 10th year in business. Congratulations on your milestone!  Ten years ago the web or web marketing was not nearly as big as it is today.  What made you decide to start this type of company?

JOHN:
That’s a great question. I studied chemistry and humanistic psychology in college so that pretty much makes perfect sense how I ended up on the internet.  In the late 90’s there was a lot of activity there and found a hidden passion and hidden talents in that regard. In our general market there seemed to be an opportunity to get in the game and see how things would fly.

MO:
Were there some events in your previous work history or circumstance that made you combine the words interactive and integrity to name your business?

John:
Yes. It was interesting as we were looking for a domain name the idea of interactive and integrity and integrative. In the early days of the web, as you probably remember, there was quite a few people on the technology side and quite a few people on the design side and quite a few people on the marketing side.  But there hadn’t been a lot of impetus to really bring all of those under one roof and for one firm to place them synergistically in an integrative way. That was the initial vision. How do we get the best players in the field under the same roof and in the same regard return phone calls and do what we promise and have fun along the way.

MO:
All companies have a particular culture, environment and values but yours is on your website for all to see. Why was it important to let everyone; clients, future employees, visitors know this is the type of company that they are dealing with?

JOHN:
I think it was important for me right from the get-go, just because right out of college there were a number of work opportunities that I had that didn’t necessarily fit my personal values or the kind of culture that I wanted to be a part of.  We’ve all had that experience where we have walked into a particular restaurant or retail outlet, they get us or they don’t get us.  I wanted to be explicit about that, both for hiring purposes to attract similar minded people that were looking for this flex-time, values driven culture. In the same regard, become an attractor pattern for new business development and also a repelling pattern as well.  People read about us and our culture and they don’t really match up with it, it’s preferable for us that they find another agency to work with. Much like companies that hang their hats on this thing or that thing, we wanted to be explicit so that we were attracting the folks that we wanted to play with and repelling the folks that wouldn’t be a good fit for us.

 

 

MO:
Everyone brings their own values to a company. How were you able to align the company’s values with those of the new employee?

John:
In the early days as we were still defining what we held near and dear to us in terms of our values and our culture, it was much more collaborative. With the first, second and third employee there was a lot of discussion about what was going to be really, really important to us and what were the priorities of those important values.  But as the company has grown and there has been a trajectory that has been established and a culture that we want to preserve we’ve moved into the mode of interviewing for those values.  We figure out if people are going to be a good fit. Do they value fun in the work place?  Do they value family and flex-time? Are they here to be craftsman or are they here to assemble? There is a subtle distinction between those things.  But when people read the website and apply and we have these conversations through the interview process, both with our core team and I’m kind of the culture ambassador here to make sure that everybody is playing well together,  it becomes apparent whether they are a fit or not.  We don’t always get it right but the batting average is pretty good.

MO:
In the beginning how many roles did you have to take on to get the business up and running?

John:
That’s funny because I didn’t take the CEO position until about 3 or 4 years ago even though I was the owner. But I definitely felt like the Chief Everything Officer.  I was responsible for sales and marketing and design and programing. It’s a completely unfunded company. It was basically getting a business license and hanging a banner in a spare bedroom is how it started. I think a lot of web developers start in that capacity because it is such a low capital business to get started. As the business grew I read a really influential book by Michael Gerber, called the E-Myth. It really alerted me to the difference between being a technician and being a business owner. Those two distinctions state that you can be one or the other but it’s hard to be both as there are only 40 hours in the work week to juggle.  I slowly started being deliberate about taking off hats. Also choosing to take off hats where I could find people that were better than me in core areas as opposed to people that I could manage or continue to have say in this area or less say rather than more say in an area.  You can only do that by hiring the most talented people in your region.

MO:
During the early days, when you started to take off the hats, was there ever a time or two that you thought of quitting?

John:
It’s funny to think about the word quitting.  I really reflect back and say, OK has there ever been a time when I wanted to throw in the towel? I can safely say that there hasn’t been.  But there have been some frustrations about not being to a milestone quick enough, which is essentially just expectations and maybe some of my attachment personality. Those frustrations generally peaked in rich conversations with friends and colleagues about, what are we missing here? I think those explorations have been very valuable to help us continue our growth trajectory.  At no time have I said that I’m done.  I’ve certainly taken time off to reflect and revisit and see what’s next, as Chief of What’s Next.  I love this.  This is what gets me out of bed in the morning; both my family and my business and I want to be here.  It’s been a great journey and continues to be so.

MO:
How long was it before you were profitable?

John:
Day one.  I think it’s one of those things that’s very interesting trajectory.  I started talking to attorneys, CPAs and advisors that I wanted to start an organically, self-funded enterprise.  They all said I was crazy.  They said it’ll grow faster and make more money if you find investors and make a lot of fireworks. I think, for me, this business continues to be a bit of a bonsai tree where it’s planted from seed and it’s carefully nurtured and grows somewhat organically.  I think that allows us to have the kind of company that we want to have rather than keep up with the trajectory of meeting investors needs or board of director’s needs.  There is nothing wrong with that business model it’s just, for us and what we are creating here it seems that we wanted to have a bit more.  Not a bit more control, because it isn’t like that. Instead we wanted to trust more in the process and kind of boot strap and see if we can do it.  That same element when Sir Edmund Hillary was asked why he decided to climb Mount Everest, ‘because it’s there’ was his response.  This challenge has been put before us by ourselves and it continues to be a fulfilling journey.

MO:
What size companies do you and the team work with?

John:
I almost say all sizes because we started small websites for mom and pops that was the beginning seedlings of the internet and what was needed. We’ve since been able to scale up both in terms of staff and capabilities to handle to major hospital systems, large tourist outlets.  We continue to be positioned where we want to help people grow their businesses.  It isn’t exclusively about being an elephant hunter or having a walk away point.  The thing that our team is really passionate about is how can we communicate our client’s values on the internet and how can help them thrive.  We still work with a few mom and pops and we scale up for projects over six figures for larger entities.  That is a lot like the game of Tetris you got to keep those blocks filled with large stones and pebbles and sand and it seems to work for us.

 

 

MO:
Tell me all of the services that you provide for your clients.

John:
It all starts with strategy, that’s the first bit, both digitally and off-line.  We added in April 2010 a advertising division with some brand strategist that used to do much larger work. But we felt that there was a time in which the digital space and off-line space need to become increasingly integrated with social media and listening as opposed to just broadcasting.  Pretty much anything in the advertising, marketing and digital space we can do.  Social media, website design, web applications, mobile, TV commercials, logos.  It’s all under one roof and its all handled by people with specific expertise and all with proven success.

MO:
I read that it is your aim to be balanced in all aspects of your life. What started you on this journey and how has the balancing act been?

John:
It continues to be a balancing act.  I think any other CEO out there listening to this can relate.  It’s always a push and pull of priorities.  I think what started me on the path to seeking that balance was maybe two key influencers.  One was a humanistic psychologist that I studied with in my last year in college, Edward Deci.  Just talking about intrinsic motivation and I really got into the work with Mihaly with Flow and trying to integrate that experience, which was so easy with playing basketball or mountaineering, into business or into family.  The other thing is my parents, they owned businesses and they would probably confess that they were a bit out of balance.  My dad is finding out later in life that love is a far more important priority than cash flow. And wanting to come to that realization earlier rather than in retirement or near retirement to say, wow look at all those years that went by. To have those joyful experiences with family and to work a sane work week.  To really give everything you got in the moment but not get out of balance in any regard.  It continues to be a challenge because I will do pretty well with business and pretty well with family and find my physical being may be a little neglected and I got to go back to the gym.

The Final Five!  Five semi-random questions.

MO:
Proudest personal achievement?
I can’t really call it an achievement because it happened naturally. It’s my family. I’ve got two wonderful kids and a loving wife.  That really brings a lot of joy to my life and reminds me of what’s important.  On the business side, creating a work environment where people genuinely like to come to work.  It’s not a utopia we are constantly working out that and trying to figure out how to provide balance.  Or at least the habitat for happiness where people can thrive in this environment.  But to come in and hear the banter and the laughter and have people genuinely want to be here is one of the crowning creations of this business.  But it’s been a co-creation so I can’t take all of the credit.

MO:
Title of last book read?

John:
I’m nearly finished with it. It’s The How of Happiness (Sonja Lyubomirsky). It’s interesting because there has been a lot written on the concept of happiness, both in the workplace and home life.  She’s actually done the research or compiled the research, not just on what people believe makes them happy but statistically of some of the hows of happiness.  The interesting thing the book says is that it requires effort.  Happiness isn’t just comfort and it isn’t just handed to you, it really is a practice.  There are key things and behaviors that people who are happier tend to do over folks that are less happy.

MO:
Three non-family members you admire?

John:
I think dating back to the basketball years and the coaching.  Phil Jackson has always been a big inspiration to me. I’ve read a couple of his books and seen some of his speeches on line.  The way that the approaches the preparation of his team and his season and his self is remarkable. The results have definitely followed suit.  There is mindfulness and compassion and a caring that goes way beyond wins and loses with him.  I definitely derive a lot of inspiration from him and continue to.  Bill George is another big influencer. He’s the former CEO of Medtronic and author of Authentic Leadership. He’s also a long time meditator and sort of focused on conscious capitalism. I continue to follow his twitter stream and read what I can.  The things that is most impressive about him and not just that he grew his company in a prolific manner but that there is a real sense of dedication to authenticity and the depth to actualizing that authenticity and how important it is.  His view is that there is a crisis in leadership right now and it can only be remedied by people stepping up and getting in touch with what is happening inside and being authentic with that.  The fact that he has taking a thought leadership position in semi-retirement is really noble and impressive to me as well. What comes to mind is Chris Anderson, CEO/Head Curator of the TED conferences.  Not just because the brand is so respected, but there are two components that really stand out.  One is his intense generosity with the spr3ead of ideas.  Certainly he could have just kept the conference but he extended it out on the web to make it a lot more democratic and available.  Then he further extended it out into the community with TedX from which they don’t receive any remuneration.  He’s aligned with his vision and his core values with curiosity and spread of ideas in the world and those ideas making a difference. He walks that talk on a huge level.  I think all three people really put a vision that’s so much larger than themselves and then trust in the process to achieve it.

MO:
Dream vacation destination?

John:
I’ve already had some dream vacation destinations.  I took the kids to Disney World couple years back and that was fantastic and has been to the Caribbean few times. I think still on my linge4ring list if I had to pick future,  I’ve always wanted to see Hawaii and go hiking and experience the waterfall there and the black beaches.

MO:
If you weren’t in the web marketing business, what career would you have?

John:
Dreamy wise I’d love to be a professional athlete but those days are long behind me.  But in lieu of that it would probably be coaching.  My brother is a lacrosse coach and there is a lot of heart strings that pull in that direction.  I can’t wait until my kids are old enough to be on the side lines and providing some sort of wisdom, if there is there is any.  I think the profession of coaching has always really enamored me and interested me from certainly Phil Jackson and the great UCLA coach John Woodon and many others.  It’s such a great way to develop self and to be a facilitator to other people’s development.